BrannamanHEWCHUCK

Buck Brannaman Clinic

by Andrew Hewchuck

I flew out to Colorado from California to audit a Buck Brannaman (BB) clinic off some dirt roads east of the Rockies near Longmont, Brighton, and Fort Lupton, CO. Marty Marten (author of, "Problem Solving") is hosting this clinic. This is from the Friday session. I recorded some BB audio, and have quoted him below. Much of it is word-for-word from my tape. Still, it's just my interpretation of what I experienced.

This first part is from the morning colt-starting class. It was rough for all, and the horsemanship part in the afternoon was much 'nicer'. BB wasn't too impressed with what he had to work with this AM--lots of spoiled horses and pretty 'clueless' horsemen (just what I was hoping for). His scorn for the latter was *very* obvious. BB spent a lot of time delivering a fairly eloquent diatribe focused on how some people spoil horses by mishandling them as wean lings. He criticized one person for letting his colt graze (a sign of "disrespect"), another for improperly haltering his colt and improperly tying the halter knot, and another for letting his colt run over him. Many of his criticisms were laughed off, but BB wasn't joking, and it seemed his criticisms weren't taken seriously. That was kind of weird-he's insulting people to their faces and they're laughing about it. Yeah, it started out pretty ugly, perhaps that is why BB focused on one particular filly. I'm not sure how old the filly is, she's real small and not much over 2

years. Her owner says that this filly hates humans and is hard to catch (if I recall correctly, the halter had been on the filly for a long time--so long that Marty Marten had to literally cut if off her). Buck worked the filly from his colt. Filly had learned to pull back while 'leading'. Would not go forward when asked, and if asked firmly enough, would buck. BB worked from his colt (who had about 10 rides on him) on getting the filly's hindquarters moving over, then the front end across. This filly had major problems. She was stuck, stuck, stuck. Asked to go forward, she would buck, buck, buck. It's hard to explain in words, but she was either frozen solid and shivering, or bucking up a storm. Eventually, BB had her moving her hindquarters away, then her front over, and finally, moving around him on his colt pretty softly.

BB gave the colt back to the woman, but later, the filly started bucking while she was holding the lead line. She let go, and the filly bucked around the pen. BB said something to the effect that she should have hung on, positioned herself behind the filly's shoulder, and moved the filly's hindquarters away from her, but now she'd messed up the work that he'd done with the filly. Well, a few minutes later, the woman tried to pull that filly straight ahead (a big 'no no' as BB tries to instruct people to position themselves and drive the horse vs. pulling on them), and the filly

blew up. She started bucking, and this time the women *did* try to hold on, but was right in front of her, put her head down, and was subsequently knocked to the ground. The filly did a bucking dance right over her body. Fortunately, the woman wasn't hurt (physically).

BB let out a little "ah, damn" sigh, then asked an auditor to hold his colt's lead rope from the outside of the roundpen while he worked with that filly on foot with flag in hand. A couple minutes later, that auditor dropped his colt's lead line. I managed to sneak into the roundpen and grab the lead before BB appeared to notice (didn't want him to get too upset with us), and had the pleasure of experimenting with his colt for the rest of the morning (I *was* impressed with how easily he backed and flexed and...).

But I digress...

"Forward, first she's gotta get forward," BB said. Thwack, thwack, thwack, thwack was the sound of the flag on her hip. Filly was really stuck and I could see her body shiver. Thwack, thwack, thwack. Still stuck, still shivering...no sign of a forward intention. "She says she can't do it without buckin' and don't wanna go because of that." More flagging until ".there, she made it.1 want her to learn how to go forward by a good deal, by a good deal so I don't have to do so much. I can't pull ya forward, but I can drive ya. She says, 'This is what she <previous trainer> taught me': safety brakes on. So you come behind the shoulder and you say, 'Take the brake off, move those feet forward'. VIAlen she goes <forward>, I don't let her go too far before I break her over behind, cuz when she goes, she wants to pull away--she doesn't feel back to ya...and don't worry, if you don't do your homework and get her soft on a lead rope, you're not rid in' her. So if you're thinking, 'Gee, I wonder if he (BB) is gonna let me get on that thing?' Like this? No way. You might get it done in this 4 days, you might not. It just depends on you (*and her*). It's not worth getting hurt. you don't wanna take a chance. now we'll go this way, if I quit my work right now, I wouldn't be helping her, not a bit, I gotta get a change. there. when she learns that movin' her feet will get her outta trouble, then buckin' is not necessary <thwack, thwack, thwack, but filly looks to hang out with other horses in the round pen>.she's tryin' to look to these other horses for support because she has not gotten it from the human being, based on what's been done with her.c'mon, just a try. there ya go. there's the hind, there's the front, move your feet.forward, forward. there ya go, and my posture changes when she gets forward, now front end <thwack, thwack of the flag>. release, don't pull away.now the other way. what you're seeing here. one of the two here can dance and the other can' t yet. one can dance and one can't. she's starting to sense that there's something about me changes when she goes forward, she's starting to get aware of that. most of the time you could use the tail of your rope to send one forward. hindquarters, forequarters, now all quarters forward. she isn't any different than a kid.if all you ever did with a kid is say, 'No, no, no' to everything, you'd destroy them. there's nothing wrong with saying 'no', but right after that you could say, 'no, but instead'. Right here, by getting these hindquarters coming loose, when she went to buckin', I

cornered her, I changed her mind, I was saying, 'No, but instead go here or there, move your hind, move your front or go forward *instead*. She's choosing the 'instead' part now. In 5 seconds it could fall apart and she

could go to buckin' again and get lost. You know what? No hard feelings: I'm going to be the same. She may change and get lost, but I'll be the same. Eventually the horse becomes a constant as well, if you work hard

enough at it. See? Helen Keller coulda led her forward that time. See her cockin' that leg there? That's good, I want her to step more forward though <thwack, thwack> there's the hind, there's the front, now forward.

BB took care to have this filly sent back to her stall without incident (he told us all to stand back as she exited the round pen) to avoid any setbacks. Then he came up to me to get his colt and, as I was handing him his colt's lead rope, he asked me, "He didn't cause you too much trouble, did he?" And he winked. I got back from lunch and watched the end of a trailer loading session. BB was watching and giving some support. The colt that was being lead into the stock trailer would occasionally lose focus...his mind wasn't on his handler and he would occasionally look off. BB praised the handler when he bumped the colt with the lead line to get his attention back to the task.

The "bump" was not as gentle as I would imagine a bump being just from reading about it. But it was well-timed and got the colt's attention. The colt became more focused on his handler and loaded. BB mentioned something about this colt not being good about backing, so the colt was lead off, not backed off.

There was a lot of stuff (*groundwork*) that BB would have hoped you had done before you showed up today, but he'd still help you (and occasionally mock you) if you hadn't. I'd never attend any of his classes without doing that stuff! The only downside to that (for the colt-starting class, at least) is that he might not 'notice' you if you had your stuff together. The afternoon horsemanship was a bit more 'user friendly', and I'll try to type it up before I go to sleep.

Horsemanship Friday afternnon 4/20

Most of it's word-for-word (not quoted since it's not exact, but close), but this is just the intro to the afternoon session (colt-starting is AM, horsemanship is PM). I don't think I'm going to keep literally transcribing this, or I'll never get too far.

Started with questions from riders.

*V\/hat do you do for a horse that's being cranky toward other horses? ...maybe I'd say pull it's head around and move it's hindquarters away from the person...other times...gather up and get the horse soft to get it to

drop it's chin, other times you might even just stop it kinda firm and go back, and then go forward, other times you might speed up, other times you might get a leg yield and move the horse over. Sometimes you might just stop the horse and bring the front all the way around the hindquarters, and then go on. You do have to mix it up with a variety of things...change the subject...and if my horse was insisting on being bothered by someone over here, and if I [asked for leg yield and he ignored it, insisting on being bothered by the other horse] I might bring my leg up to here [90 degrees] and kick a hole clear through him, if that's what it took for him to go, "oh, your the man, I'm movin' off of your leg." So you do what it takes, but don't have any malice for the horse, but get a change... it might not be

in your nature...you might have to be "GET OVER!!!"...you become what you need to be for a moment, and then, don't hold any hard feelings. A horseman has the ability to adjust, it's never based on anger, it's based on what it

takes. So you need to have the ability to take charge. Be sure enough of yourself that you follow through, and you get a change. Say a horse needs you to firm up. The problem is, firmness with a lot of people, first there's anger, then there's frustration and then they firm up. That is not calculated, there's no feel, and there's no timing behind that, that's only revenge for what that horse did to you. And that's no good. It has to be calculated. So there are times when you might not be firm enough, and I might tell ya to adjust. And there are times when you might be doing *way* too much. And I'll tell ya to adjust. If you've got a horse that's operating so nice for ya, that he's *really* walkin' out, you will not see that kind of horse being cranky or being bothered by other horses. Never see it. The horses that are cranky and miserable and witchy to be around are horses that are not responding to the rider: they are dull. They're going about half-speed or less, in terms of the energy you'd like to see come through. An energetic, lively, respectful horse will not be distracted by these other horses.

*Question re: horse 'jogging' or wants to go too fast.

Say you want her to really walk out, and she said, "I wanna run or I wanna jog." ...don't make the jogging impossible, just make it difficult. Some might try to hold the horse in when he's pushing, trying to go through it.

You can only hold so long until they go through the bridle, and then you're sunk. [describes sharp serpentines to make jogging difficult] left leg back, right leg forward (zig to the left), right leg back left leg forward (zag to right), look like I'm driving a bulldozer...that's not ordinarily how I'd ride this horse, but if I had more energy coming through him than what I wanted, I'm going to direct it in that manner. And whenever the horse gets quiet (he rides quiet).

Unless you can move that colt out, and really get it traveling, you're on borrowed time. You might think, "Well, I'm going to stay safe so I'm just gonna go slow." If you don't use all the gaits God gave the horse, eventually you're going to get in trouble. And what a pleasure when you can move that horse out and not have to worry. (however, in Saturday morning's colt-starting class, he didn't have them loping just yet). BB reiterated the importance of groundwork: If they don't respect you on the ground, they not gonna respect ya much when you're on their back

either when me and my friends are starting colts at home, that's what we *do*-run around the arena, playing tag and grabbing slickers off the fence and lope along with our colts and throw (the slicker) to the next guy, and

he jumps side ways and away he goes. You rub him with it and throw it to the next guy, and it'd be way more than what a lot of you could bear. But a couple days of that and them suckers are gentle and they're broke to death.

Because we venture out, we *do* things on 'em. And all of that is proportionate to what you think you can handle from the saddle. I wouldn't *dream* of asking you guys to do that this afternoon. So, what's the approach? We tailor it to fit your deal... *groundwork*, *get your horses gentle*.. .I'm pretty sure that if I scattered you guys out here, and you saw how I was waving my flag on my colt, I could just do an in-and-out thing (riding through the class) and I could eliminate about half the class in about 30 seconds--you'd be runnin' out the door out of control. Because maybe they hadn't seen that flag enough, or a slicker, or a piece of plastic, or whatever.

So the reason I keep talking about getting your horses gentle so much is, unless that horse is calm, and relaxed with you, and doesn't get scared, you're not gonna teach him anything. He's not gonna learn a thing, because half of the operation is through nerves. If a horse is operating on nerve, it's all impulse type actions. It's no good. ...you might think, "We were doing this (exercise) good yesterday, and you (horse) act like you've never done it and I have to show you allover again!" You feel like you have to re-teach it every time you get on your horse? It was the frame of mind he was in when you *thought* he learned it. He didn't learn it, you just thought he did...if the frame of mind wasn't right when he was learning it, he won't retain it from one day to the next...it's all about reaction, that's all. So I can't say enough about getting your horses gentle.

*Riding with a rope around their neck Oust talked about it today): the playing field is level, perhaps for the first time, you can't dominate or overpower your horse, it has to work through communication, the intimidation just won't work...you learn how to deliberately prepare your horse to maybe bring his frontquarters across. You'll do a better job with a rope around their necks than you will with your snaffles, for some reason...it's a tool to learn how to use your snaffle bit properly...there are some things that won't even come out, in terms of your problems, until your trying to do this with a rope around their neck. And the first day or so, you're not gonna like it...but by the last day, you'll be asking to leave the rope around the neck and forget the snaffle bit altogether, because you'll have a lot more success with it than what you could imagine.

By the end of the first day, and definitely by the end of the second day (if not the first), you're apt to be overwhelmed, discouraged, frustrated...to the point that maybe you'd sell your saddle for 10 cents on the dollar, and you'd give your horse away. And then by the third day it clears up for quite a few of you, not all of you, and by the fourth day you've pretty well worked through it and you sorta feel like you don't want to jump off a cliff anymore. So...by the end of today or tomorrow, if you feel like you're just about ready to cry, just know in your mind, so am I <laughter>. And then we'll all just work through this a little bit at a time. I make these hard for you, I want 'em challenging, I want it difficult, you gotta concentrate hard to get it working for ya...it's not gonna be a homerun every time you step up to the plate...'bout the time you're frustrated and upset with yourself, just imagine what your horse has been dealing with--you have a kindred spirt right underneath ya.

Next, maybe I'll get around to posting about what they actually *did*. Andrew

Buck Brannaman Clinic, Fort Lupton, CO Horsemanship Friday afternnon 4/20

One of the first things I'm gonna have you doing is that we gotta get you to where you can ride your horses on a loose rein, at a walk or trot or lope. Now, once you can all ride on a loose rein at a walk, trot, lope...then

you'll learn to do some of this kind of stuff (asks and gets a soft feel in vertical flexion from his colt). This colt's green, so we won't do a lot of it. But you'll get a soft feel like that, and let go. You'll get a soft feel, maybe you'd ask the horse to leg yield over a little bit for ya, and then walk on. We're gonna do a lot of that kind of stuff here. But first, you have to accurately be able to ride your horse on a loose rein. Generally speaking, when you're using a McCarty (rein, aka Mecate) you'd have your coil of your McCarty to the outside because, if I told you to take up a rein, shorten up a rein, maybe stop with one rein, it's gonna be to the inside. So you want that coil to theoutside...it's important...because there are times when I want you long on the reins, absolutely out of the horse's way. There are other times you'll be riding your horse literally in one hand. So if I was riding a snaffle bit horse in one hand, and I needed to make a left turn, well, you see my reins are pretty even. Now, with one hand, I could let that coil slip, now my left rein is shorter than my right rein because I got the right rein longer. So I can still direct-rein my colt <illustrates this>. You'll eventually need to learn how to ride your horse, even in a snaffle bit in one hand, yet not forsake directing the horse with your leading rein, because a snaffle bit is designed to work off the comers of the mouth with a direct rein, a leading rein. But in time some of you are going to do other things where you need one hand free (working a flag, opening a gate, swing in' a rope)...but you absolutely do

not ever take a snaffle bit and close your hand around the reins and ride him like this <clamps one hand around the end of the 'U' of a looped rein). It's not desinged to do that, you will never ride a snaffle bit like that. Ever.

You've always got that direct rein, yet even on a green colt when I'm walkin' him in a circle, I don't want there to be constant tension on the inside rein. You're gonna hear me talk about fixing and releasing. Now before lunch (colt-starting session with the stuck filly) that little horse I was workin' with on the leadrope, you saw me bumpin' her nose to the inside. I wanted her to stay round...1 wanted her to keep her nose in, I wasn't so likely to get kicked then. Even when you're walking a horse from their back, from here I want the horse to be able to stay round, yet I want there to be a little float in this rein here, the left rein. If you've got constant tension on that left rein, in order to keep your horse in a left circle, she's eventually gonna get so hard and resistant that all the strength you have is not enough. So what I'm thinkin' of when my leg's are in this position, left leg back, right leg forward, that tells this horse I want a left circle. That should help him. But also with my left rein, I fix and release--whenever he's tippin' his nose to the outside, he doesn't hold that shape, I tip his nose in and I let go. I tip his nose in and I let go. If he cut across the circle and did too much...that meant I did too much. So let's say he started to cut across, I can always block him out here <? used inside rein on shoulder?>, take him back out. I want his nose in but I don't want him droppin' his shoulder. I don't want this, see that? I don't want that. I want him round, I want his shoulder up. If when you're in a serpentine, you're walking right and left with your horses, and you find that you have an individual that rather than tip the nose in, the shoulder comes in. Then you might have to be back in here <shoulder?> with that rein (inside) to be able to tip that nose in so that if the shoulder starts to come in, you can block him there...and then you release. Sort of like a leg-yield. On a horse that hasn't been spoiled and learned to drop a shoulder, you might have your leading rein a little more out to the side. If I come in here, and this horse started cutting across my circle rather than tippin' his nose, I'd come here with my rein for a moment, just to block him. And if I come in with the left to keep him from cutting in, I gotta come out with the right, for a moment, to block him...and my left leg is more active, in that example. Cuz I want that horse to hollow out and get round around my inside leg. That's what I'm lookin' for. I've gotta do a lot of manipulating a green colt with my reins as well as my legs. On a finished horse, it's your legs to get that horse to round out there--that's it, cuz you're riding him in one hand, a more finished horse. So I want you to just be particular how your cirlces are on your horses. Watch 'em close.

Now, I'm going to talk about untracking your horse. I just talked about keeping them walking forward, round, and engaged. That's the very same thing you just saw on the leadrope before lunch. That's engaged, all 4

quarters working together. Now we're going to disengage, that is, I'm going to slide down this left rein and there's an imaginary line, when that head comes around, between the left ear and my left eye. My hand <one the left rein> is on that imaginary line. When I take that head around, my left leg will kick the hindquarters out of gear. Minimum of 90 degrees, if not 180 or more. Whatever it takes. If your horse is real sticky, of course you do a little extra. Once the hindquarters disengage, then I release my leg, I hold the horse's head around until he stops. Now watch: slide way down <on left rein>, hindquarters... little more...there, release my leg, hold his head *till he stops* no matter how far it is, I might rub him with the other hand, release. And once you've stopped, you can take their head around both ways, and pet 'em. You've gotta have this, you guys. I want you to watch how I do it. When I slide down that rein going to take that head around, then I can switch hands on the rein once it's around, and I can reach down

and rub 'em, maybe even go over their ears to make sure they're not troubled about their head. Then this way. And you'll notice when I reach for him, he reaches for me. When you go to take your horses' heads around you may find that as soon as you do this <slide down the rein and bring head around> they start movin' their feet. If they do, you just hold, keep your legs quiet until they stop. You wait that out. If you've done your homework on the end of your leadrope, you're not in any danger, really, there. But you've got to wait that out till they get stopped, and then release. But for now that's a basic thing, you can't do too much of that. You're gonna need that, you guys.

But I want you to be aware when I have you stoppin' with one rein and disengagin' those hindquarters, you've gotta calculate how far down on that rein you need to grab so that when that head comes around, your hand is on that <imaginary> line. I'm on the line, right there, with my right hand. I'm on that line. You will not get your hand behind you, and you will not be inside the line...On a green snaffle bit horse you are never inside the line. You're on it, or outside the line. As they get more advanced, you can work inside that line. Toward the end-stage (toward the end of the snaffle bit stage), you're working quite a bit inside that line with your hands, they're pretty close together. But not now. And a horse can separate these things. If I'm on the line right here, to him that means

hindquarters. \Nhen I open up here (outside the line) and lead, see where his frontquarters go <they go in that direction> when I go outside the line? They can separate that. We also use the supporting rein, but the leading rein is important. If I'm on the line, to him that means "rollover behind." \Nhen I open up here outside the line, he'll follow that leading rein with his front end. A horse needs to learn how to move their front end first by a leading rein. \Nhen it comes to snaffle bit horses, the order of presentation of your reins is: first leading rein, then supporting rein. On a finished horse, it's first supporting rein then leading rein *only* if it's necessary. And if he's a finished horse it's probably not necessary, only on a rare ocassion when you need to make a little correction there. But for right now it's on the leading rein. Then I would go to bring his front end across, my supporting rein is here, on the base of his neck. But you see, I'm not prying on it. I just presented it there. That's it. You don't pry on it, you don't push him with this rein, it's just there, you just present it. You don't push him with it.

Okay, any questions? <then they rode>

I haven't read all the posts in response to the report (no time right now), but I did read a couple. BB was *very* helpful today to those same folks who he seemed down on yesterday. I can't begin to tell you right now (I'm still on yesterday's report). Don't judge him from one post or even a series of posts from a clinic report. The difference between BB and most of the participants is that his approach can go from almost zero to 100 mph, then down to almost nothing again (that approach applies to both horses and students). There's clearly no malice behind any of it. Also, Buck differentiated the 'thwack' of a flag from using a whip (which involves pain and is not a good thing).

Most of the participants (so far) haven't been dynamic enough with their horses. I should not have called them clueless--a lot of them have been working on this stuff for many years and are a heck of a lot handier with a horse than I am. Yesterday was kind of a mess, though...it really was! But after watching today's colt-starting session, the majority of the participants did *very* well, and I could tell most of them were pretty skilled with their horses. But it was obvious that a few of them had not done quality groundwork (e.g. one colt was *very* sticky in being driven forward from the ground, so didn't 'lead by' well in preparation for leading up to the fence for mounting...will get to that report later). But the majority of them did fine and all participants seemed to be really concentrating and trying. And BB was there for all the participants and all the horses today, in a good way. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else right now. <doing backing exercises on the colts, from the ground> Easy now and pet 'em good. You just work on the slightest change and build on it till you can back 'em in circles and figure eights anywhere you want. Soon as they drop their chin while backing, you release. Alright? So get to work on that. If you're wanting to do a film of a colt that the result of getting the horse scared of moving it's feet, this is the horse I'd pick <the filly from the first day of colt-starting that literally ran over the handler>. From

the halter-breaking where it got so wadded up to where everytime you'd put pressure on the leadrope it'd stop its feet (if you guys kinda remember from yesterday), where it'd just lock 'em up. That's as good a way to create a

buckin' horse as there is. She was a confirmed buckin' horse 'fore she ever got saddled the first time. Doesn't mean it can't be fixed, but that's what that poor halter-breakin'll do for ya. ...and we'll be backin' circles in the horsemanship [clinic] today...but if you've already done it on foot, of course, then, on that horsemanship horse why, that's real easy. But if the horse has never seen this on the ground-oh, they have a heck of a time on their back.

<works with the filly from his saddle horse> We'll get her kinda get her stepp in' over a little more behind, it's way better, of course, than yesterday--by a long shot. She has a real hard place in here, bending her. Extremely resistant, and this is man-made here, this bracing in here. She doesn't give this head through here and come through with her feet. That's why I'm not letting <whatshername> ride her. She will [ride her] in time when things get a little better. But it i'nt worth takin' the chance with her. This horse is way behind, is years behind. So this hard spot's gotta get fixed. Kip's rode quite a few colts, so he can handle this <Kip was helping out with the clinic>. See how she drops that shoulder and even wants to run over this horse [Buck's saddle horse]? I wan'er to learn how to tip this nose over here--there, like that--without being so pushy. She's just protectin' herself. But like I was sayin' it's too bad one's gotta live two years with a human being and still know, or still feel like it has to protect itself. But she wasn't in the best environment before <kind of cloudy here, but this filly was raised among some cattle an hour away from the woman who brought her to the clinic. The people that did handle her didn't handle her much, and when they did, they didn't do it very well...that's as much as I recall of her history>. Now you gotta watch, she'll use about every kind of defense she's got-she'll try to bite ya (which she just did), try to crawl up in the middle of your horse, kick ya or strike ya. But ya can't blame her; she's just tryin' to take care of herself. She doesn't know she's among friends. It's not her fault. C'mon over, Kip. And go up to her and rub 'er there. Just get on half way.

Now down. Get on half way again. Go ahead and get on <he's on>. Okay? Just rub on her...and you just pet her and, of course you know that but Take a hold of your nightlatch [bucking strap] there 'cause she's

gonna have to wad up some, this horse. Might as well be prepared for it. <Buck answers a question about his colt in this situation> Yeah...1 just don't want him to feel like he's gotta be cranky towards her. She makes him uncomfortable, he doesn't like these rang-a-tang colts bein' that close, but he's kinda learning what this job's about too.

Right there she thought maybe she's gonna go on by me. Won't let 'er. <question from someone> What's that? Hell, they couldn't catch her. So ridin' her was kinda pie in the sky. She's had the halter on for a long time, we don't know, but a long time. It's cuz they couldn't catch her to get it off, they wanted to but... Go ahead and trot 'er <he does>. I'll try not to lose my dalies. See if you can guide her to my right side with your hand, there <note: Kip was riding this filly in a halter with one rein. A lot of his directing her involved pushing on her vs. pulling on her with the rein. For example, if he'd want her to turn to the right, he'd reach out toward her left eye and 'crowd' it until she'd turn right, etc.

It was very fast paced, and he'd be switching 'pushing' hand and hand that held onto the cantle every few seconds or so>. There ya go, then I have a little better chance of helpin' ya out. Get a change in those feet until

she moves over. There ya go. Go ahead and trot 'er out. You can lope 'er if ya want...'kay, walk 'er trot 'er. She's gotta learn that spot there where she's not too far ahead but she's not too far ahead. <Says to Kip> Your goal is just to keep her on that spot, you kinda know where it is. <trot, trot, trot> If you wanna lope her, I'll catch up; dontchoo worry. That-a-way, good job. It's alright. If she gets to where we can operate these hindquarters, then you could do somethin' about that buckin'--they're pretty sticky right now <Buck would have a less skilled rider work on getting the hindquarters more responsive from the ground>. You need to do lots of, just like you're rid in' a saddle bronc horse, rubbin' her with your feet so she won't dig that much, it'll kinda bug her, she'd get to where it won't bother 'er. And she gets lost through experience breakin' over behind when she crowds me and goes too far ahead, like that. And we just lead her back...go ahead and kick 'er, there ya go...then this way. Stay back. <Laughs>...you kicked her in the stifle, she's so little, your leg reached back and it'd have only been the third rib on the average horse, but it was the stifle. Alright, sit still, just rub her. Okay, you just go wherever. We'll take you for a little spin here in a second. See if I can find my flag--there it is. <some thwacking with the flag> You just pet her. When she gets to lookin' back and bothered, you just pet her. <thwack, thwack, thwack>. Okay, don't worry 'bout her bein' bothered like that, just rub her, back on the rump too, everywhere. <thwack, thwack> That's the way. Grab that mane with your other hand, then you kinda know which way she's goin'. Don't do too much, let me do most of the drivin' and you help a little bit. She's like ridin' a Border Collie <laughter>. See if you can get 'er to lope now. That's good, just let 'er stop.

Any questions so far? <? about Kip--laughter> So he doesn't have to have a real job. She'll have a good ride today and a couple more days she'd be alright. Okay, see if you can walk her. <auditor says, "Buck, I don't have a Kip at home"-laughter> Well, we'll try to wear him plumb out here then. She didn't have a Kip at home, she said <thwack, thwack>. That's what all the girls say <laughter>. Go ahead and trot 'er...go ahead and ask her to walk <whirring of Buck's rope is audible as filly circles Buck on his saddle horse>. I'd like that circle to get a little bigger. She'll find out how to kinda get away from me. You can ask her to change directions there, be fine. All the way through, do a little more. There ya go. Good, that was good for her. Go a little ways and then do it--yep, now. When she goes up,

squeeze with your lower legs and release your lower legs when she goes down. There's a rhythm to that, just like lop in' a horse. Now pet 'er there, her ears startin' to work there--she needs to kinda just get to relyin' on you, it's all taking over here. Doing good, hang in there. Good, pet her. Good. Pretty soon she might go where you want to go. Hang in there. There ya go, good. That's the way. *There*'s a little improvement. Just keep workin' at it. You just think of where you'd like to go, see if you can get her there. Keep working <Kip is reaching out and pushing her head in that direction>. Keep working. There ya go. Good. That's the way, I'm gonna hold her here <? ropes a hind foot>. You might have to shoe her some day. She might warrant bein' shod. <she had been shod> Why? And how did they do it? And he what? He just did it. Had no problems, huh? <she'd been shod up against the side of a wall> Had her up against the side of a wall, I see. That's called rape where I come from. Ask her to go. <Buck is told that the filly leaned on the farrier when being shod> But she kept leanin' on him, weill wouldn't say it's good.

.cause as a grown up horse, when they're leanin' on ya, they mash ya p<laughs>. Anybody here wanna trim her feet this morning? <Question that I couldn't make out> Yeah. I've said to ya, "Squeeze on the way up and you let go with your legs on the way down." So that you can balance, because when they go down, the front end hits the ground-that's when they're gonna make a change of direction if they're gonna get kinda trashy, buckin'...But there's a rhythm to that, no different from ridin' a horse lopin'. When they go up, that's when you take a hold with your legs so you can go up with 'em. When they go down, you let go. On a little one like this that rhythm is like a 45 record playin' twice as fast as it ought to. That kind a dates me, doesn't it? But on a bigger horse that you can time up with them a lot better. Of course they're a lot more powerful too. You get out of time with a big horse, just one beat, and boy, they'll just about snap your neck just from the force of them buckin'.

Hey, Buck, could you do this on the ground, like if your buddy was rid in' could you hold that leg like that on the ground?> Yeah. But if was doin' this to keep a friend of mine from bein' bucked off, I'd do it from a saddle horse. Because they could get away from ya on foot. if you didn't have anybody in the saddle, yes, you'd do this on foot. VVhen you're learning to rope a hind foot, like what you guys are seein' in that groundwork book, you need to do a couple hundred on foot before you'd ever try it on a saddle horse. Because you'd need to have the ability to dally efficiently here, plus slip rope. See, this is like drag on a fishin' reel. W1en she hits it really hard, watch my rope, see it slip? That's like a clutch. So it wouldn't hurt 'er.

Go ahead and pick up your lead rope there <shorten it on the side you're dismounting from>. See of you can swing off her. Good, and reach down and ease that rope <on her leg> off for me. Just pet her down the leg first. See how she's squattin' right there? That's the part where I say it's not good. So I don't care if her feet got trimmed. That squatting there is trouble. See, because as an adult horse <filly is two years old> they'd either mash ya in the dirt to get out from under ya, or right after they squat and get you kinda holding up, then they'd wipe ya out and kick ya. Alright, that'll do for now. lead 'er on out and you can practice over there on the fence getting her to come up to ya on the fence. I want four colts in here. Cinch up good, and then you'll take your halters off for me. I'm just gonna move 'em around a little bit, so, you guys, just make sure you're cinched up real good that your kinda satisfied how tight your saddles are.

Any questions, anyone? <question about why Buck put the pressure on the fiHy, with the flag, with the rider on board> Yeah, because I didn't want the colt gettin' bothered 'bout him. If that colt had been relyin' entirely

on him to move her out, she'd a been buckin' till she staggered. She'd a probably never quit buckin'. So I can kinda be the bad guy, a little bit, and get fer moving out. And he could just be petting and rubbing on her and getting her feeling more comfortable about it. And ridin' with a couple guys like that, you could see you could get a pretty trashy kind of a horse like that and get a whole lot done in not very much time. But you gotta be confident then, as a rider too, because you can't be so concerned about yourself that when I say, "Pet that horse," your not just all clamped down and not giving the horse what the horse needs. 'cause this is when they need the support-is when they're troubled. They don't need it once they're gentle. That's when everybody feels confident to rub on 'em. Ch, woop-dee-doo, then. Ha-doesn't make much difference then. But it's when they're scared and upset. <question about what to do in this situation if you're by yourself> I'da just a been a little more thorough with my groundwork, then l'da stepped on and rode'im. But I'd just get that horse a little better on the end of that leadrope, got some things shaped up. You see, I gamed quite a bit of ground in the little bitg of time I was on the leadrope there yesterday, before lunch. Then just imagine what I'da gained today if I'da took hold of her again--then I'da just rode 'er. Cuz she's not big enough to buck off a wet saddle blanket once you get on 'er. So I just as soon they don't buck but, at the same rate, if you'd as soon they' didn't buck you'd start 'em as soon as they were babies with this groundwork and get 'em comfortable when they're little guys, ya know? rope a hind foot, like what you guys are seein' in that groundwork book, you need to do a couple hundred on foot before you'd ever try it on a saddle horse. Because you'd need to have the ability to dally efficiently here, plus slip rope. See, this is like drag on a fishin' reel. W1en she hits it really hard, watch my rope, see it slip? That's like a clutch. So it wouldn't hurt 'er.

trouble. See, because as an adult horse <filly is two years old> they'd either mash ya in the dirt to get out from under ya, or right after they

squat and get you kinda holding up, then they'd wipe ya out and kick ya. Alright, that'll do for now. lead 'er on out and you can practice over there on the fence getting her to come up to ya on the fence.

I want four colts in here. Cinch up good, and then you'll take your halters off for me. I'm just gonna move 'em around a little bit, so, you guys, just make sure you're cinched up real good that your kinda satisfied how tight your saddles are. Any questions, anyone? <question about why Buck put the pressure on the fiHy, with the flag, with the rider on board> Yeah, because I didn't want the colt gettin' bothered 'bout him. If that colt had been relyin' entirely

leadrope there yesterday, before lunch. Then just imagine what I'da gained today if I'da took hold of her again--then I'da just rode 'er. Cuz she's not big enough to buck off a wet saddle blanket once you get on 'er. So I just as soon they don't buck but, at the same rate, if you'd as soon they' didn't buck you'd start 'em as soon as they were babies with this groundwork and get 'em comfortable when they're little guys, ya know?

I've omitted names out of respect for the riders who might not want to be named here. That might make the transcript somewhat confusing to follow. You'll just need to figure out when he's talking to someone in particular

vs. when he's addressing the group. Buck was really good with remembering all the names of the riders-I'm real bad with names but I knew all the riders names by the second day since Buck was frequently calling them out. Also, it's really helpful to put this stuff in context with the rest of the reports, both the colt-starting and the horsemanship ones.> Get on there <flags colt>. This little roan horse kinda wants to wad up, not real freed up moving forward. He's pretty friendly on the ground but it'd be one of those that ya go to move it out then it'd wanna wad up and

crow hop. <which horse?> This horse <that's not *my* horse>. Ha ha, never seen that horse before in your life, have ya? Lotta of this on these colts, ya know, at first ya first kinda go, "Boor'to 'em and they'll wad up and buckin', get scared. Pretty soon that doesn't mean too much <flags them some more>. Alright, catch 'em up, put your halters on look right behind ya. Stop. See, this horse here was looking for somebody. So that's when you try to help your friend, and you pet 'em, see. Now you can go ahead, catch 'em, see? But I'm always thinking, "How can I make friends with these other people I'm ridin' with too," and maybe getting their horse a little more gentle would impress them, since your all stuck in this together.

Sometimes, ya know, when people go in to catch a colt, ifs sorta like, "To heck with everybody else, I'm gonna get my horse." And you'll see 'em whackin' other horses out of their way when the horse is just tryin' to be caught by any particular human. He's just lookin' for somebody to catch him. And then they think, "Hell, it isn't mine, so who cares." That's why you have people shootin' each other all the time--bein' so damn inconsiderate. So ya always watch to help one another. Most of the time people do that 'cause they just don't know, they don't know the difference. But rm not afraid to bring it to their attention.. .At my ten day cfinics 1 start a colt with the folks-my colt comes up to somebody, I expect them to be friendly to it, so that I can catch him in no time at all.

Okay? Just get 'em up to ya on the fence...yeah, you're on, then just go to takin' that head around, you can just go to bending. But you can pick up those stirrups, that's fine. Just be real careful about lean in' off, that's kinda dangerous to do, she's kinda toleratin' it. You know what I'd do if, of course my stirrups are <twisted> easy to pick up, but if I rode a saddle that I couldn't pick 'em up, rather than lean off ('cause these colts get real scared) rd pick the stirrup up and, see, and bring it out. Then I gotta better chance, you guys follow me? Then I'm in the middle of this sucker, and if he's gonna buck me off he's gonna have to work at it. But if you're off to the side they'll look sideways and sometimes just, you won't even get through the first jump <Iaughs>...that's pretty risky Okay, so

as soon as you get on I want you takin' that head around, pettin' 'em. You don't have to go anywhere, you just take their head around and pet 'em. He looks alright, you can go ahead and see if he'lIletcha slide on, that's the

way... So you can just go to takin' his head around and go to the inside or the outside, either way, and let him find a place to stop. Both ways, stay real busy bendin' that horse. You don't have to go anywhere for right now, just sit, just sit. Once you guys get their head comin' around then I'ma have ya steppin' 'em over behind, before ya go forward... <to someone on the fence> You could probably take your rope, that rope off the saddle, and

throw those coils out there, from the fence, and coil it back up and get 'er used to seein' that dragged back up there to ya--while you're sittin' on the fence, yeah. Good release. You can start workin' on your hindquarters a little bit, steppin' over, you guys, just bendin' 'em, steppin' 'em over behind and then release. Throw that rope <leadrope, they're riding with a halter/leadrope> across and go the other way. You can do a little more, it

won't hurt a thing. Little more bumping there, bump, bump, bump, bump--nope, that was the front, that was the front. *There's* the hind. Then go the other way. Since she gets a little wadded up from time to time, you damn sure want that hind workin'. There ya go. See, that's good. She's not sneakin' around him, she's gettin' him to move over. That's good. Don't force it, don't force it. Allow her learn how to give or, er, him

learn how to give that. Instead of tryin' to kinda makin' it come around, you just reward the slightest change--help him to kinda learn that. <?>

Yeah, but when you go to kinda take it around, be real easy and remember to be on that imaginary line, not too far inside that line. Just like the horsemanship [clinic]. Yeah, release. That's the way. When he gets to where he's feeling more sure of that, then you can switch hands on that rope, reach down and pet him, let go.

The reason why I was wanting to change that cinch <on the troubled filly from day one> on that saddle too, sa it'd sit farther forward. Cuz even just a kind a of a little jump or two like she took with Kip, boy, there's a lotta snap in a horse when your saddle had slid back six or eight inches. They feel like they're about twice as powerful when that saddle is back beyond that-cuz this is sarta the pivot point there when a horse is buckin'. You wanna have your saddle-that's why bronc riders put that saddle right up on the withers. They set them way far ahead when they're rodeoin'. Cuz that's the best place on the horse to ride a buckin' horse. The farther back you go, it's just exponentially more difficult. So that's why that saddle--fit of a saddle is crucial. And just a saddle that slides

back, a lot of times, once it slides back and then starts pushing back on the shoulder blades, they might not've been gonna buck but then they'll go ahead and buck with ya. Because it really hurts them gettin' their shoulder blades kinda pushed forward by the bars of the saddle. So you'll have horses that weren't even gonna buck that, if the saddle didn't fit right, they'll have 'em doin' it a lot of times Alright, we'll go for a little ride. \fIJhat's that? You're ready to rock, huh? <laughs> Alright, that's the spirit! So you just pet 'em, don't pull on 'em, just pet 'em. <begins flagging> Just rub'em, just go for a little ride. All their gonna do is move. You can old onto that horn, there's

nothing wrong with that, nobody will think less of ya, that's for damn sure. You bought that saddle horn with the rest of it, and you can pull on it as

hard as you like <laughter>. A mane hold's what you do there on that horse <English saddle>, and you're gonna be alright anyway, cuz he's just gonna move out <more flagging>. If they trot, just Jet 'em, and rub on 'em when

they move. Don't clash with 'em, go with 'em, they're supposed to move, be glad they moved. She thought she was gonna give my horse a bit of a glare there, like Tuba <Buck's horse> was gonna leave, like <flags the horse away

and onward>. There ya go. C'mon, c'mon Roany, move your feet there. And you can kinda help your horse <different horse> to move out a little bit now, it'd be alright, yeah, I think he'd be alright. That's the way. Your horse <another different horse> really wants to go, so you're in pretty good shape anyway. Be glad for that. But realty rub on 'em, see, don't just sit there, you gotta rub little bald spots on 'em, you guys. <continues driving colts around the roundpen> <question> Nope, not yet. lIma drive ya a little bit more. Alright, now you can go ahead and take your halter ropes down, ride 'em around a little bit here, and do some one rein stops. V'all remember how to do that, I think. Just like the horsemanship [clinic], ya get 'em walkin', get that head around, and roll those hindquarters outta gear. Then release your leg, hold their head tiff they're stopped. Go ahead and do some stoppinl with one rein there. Get that head around. You might just be thinkin' about a kind of a quality walk there, for now when I'm not drivin' ya. Just a nice walk. Don't get 'im in trouble. Alright, go right on, go right on. Don't be afraid to kinda help her a little bit

there. Ya gotta tap her on the rump there with your hand like you did-you had the right idea. Get a little change, get a little change. There ya go, see the ears come out? And you just won't be able to do too much of that, gettin' him to just movin' out, and then bending, stoppin' with one rein. Ya just won't be able to overdo that. <question> Urn, you pretty much just hold solid and then, when they give, then just release. He'll really wanna pull on ya because of his poor halter manners. But, there ya go. But there is some softness trapped inside that horse. We're just tryin' to get it turned loose.

Friday afternnon 4/20

As someone mentioned to me, the horsemanship is not quite as intense as the colt-starting portion, due to the proportionately greater risks of colt-starting>

Exercise: Hindquarterslfrontquarterslwalk off

Hindquarters to your left, then the front quarters to your right. Need to lift more <says this to one rider to bring front around> he kinda pushes harder and it'll take quite a bit more on him to get him to <move front quarters to right>. Now lift. Lift! Ah, yeah! Ya see!? Now would ya do that every time? Finally! Huh?! Do it again, hind to the left, then front to the right. That's amazing, isn't it, when you guys finally do this right and your horse comes through. You'll go, "Oh, he finally got it!" <laughs> And that's what your horse is saying, he's saying, "Hey, Roany, did you see my human? He finally got it!" Let's do it again, hind to the left and front to the right. Yeah, he's tryin'. But what you need to do, you need to get that hand a little farther around and a little bit more leg so he

breaks a little cleaner behind-then the front will come through Let's see it again, hind to the left and front to the right.

Hey, pretty good there. How'd that feel last time? It wasn't as bad as what you think. It

actually wasn't as bad as what you think <rider wonders about that>. No, he's searching. He's kinda got the right idea. Once again, hind to the left and front to the right <HLFR>. There, you got your reach, see?

Gradually you guys will learn to use your leading rein appropriately. Boy, you won't believe the difference. <question about asking for more than a reach in front?> When the reach is starting to come through pretty consistently, then just hold 'em a little longer till you get a step over. Just hold a little longer. Alright, do it again <HLFR>...good, that was good. Take the hind to your right and the front to your left <HRFL>. Have some good rhythm. Pretty good there Once again HRFL...good, that lifting is really helping, isn't it, on that horse. Do it again, HRFL. Remember your hand has got to be on that imaginary line <for the hind> and then outside the line <for the front>. You didn't open up enough and therefore, when your leg kinda kicked him on through, the horse kinda went, "Where?" because your leading hand didn't go outside that line. <didn't step over behind too well either> Yeah, she got a little sticky, yeah-you needed to probably even get another step or two behind. Take a little break from that We'll leave this alone for now, give your brains a little rest on it. It's kinda bit of concentrating to get that right, I know. But it's not so different than if you didn't have your horse and went to dance class and you were tryin' to figure out what in the heckto do with your feet. Boy, after awhile you kinda get to thinking, "Man, I just need to stop and take a deep breath, I haven't even been breath in." So we'll give you a little break from that.

Now, we're gonna have you workin' on a soft feel. Some of ya've done it, some of ya haven't. It won't hurt ya to hear it again anyway. I want you to get to where when you're walking, trotting, eventually loping, when you pick up your reins, your horse will give. He'll drop his chin and he'll give like that. We want him to break.. .at the poll. We want him to learn to give to that snaffle. Some of your horses may want to put their head to the ground when we do this. Well, of course, the rein would come tighter in your hands, the weight would increase on your hands if his head went down. You look at where my hands are positioned, about as wide was my hips and even with my hip bones, if he tried to put his head down, as if to graze, for example, well, he's gonna be pullin' the reins away from me, or tryin' to. But if he breaks at the poll, he'll actually be putting slack into the reins. You see? And, of course, I meet him in the middle and I put as much slack toward him as what he puts toward me. So we're not just expecting the horse to give to himself. I give him as much back as he gave me. So I'd just close my hands around the reins, and I'd wait. When he gives like that, I release. And on these youngsters, it's *crucial* that you have a good release, you have good timing. Nice even reins, don't be harsh with your hands, you just wait and when you get a little change like that, you release. They'll drop right off that pressure, and that's what we'll look for. Then you'd learn how to give. Right now, at this stage, on a baby like this I wouldn't *dream* of holding it. He's not ready. I'll ride one in a day or so that I can hold it for a pretty long period of time. He's ready for it. Your just teaching them how to give, and you release and you rub 'em. You gotta keep 'em straight, your hands gotta be about this far apart on a snaffle bit horse, a green one. Nice and straight so they get organized. And you release by pushing your hands forward, not by opening your hands. Because what if you wanted to ask again? Then you'da let go of the reins. I don't want you to letting go of the reins, I want ya to hold on the 'em. So that in case I tell you to pause 5 seconds and do it again, you're still in position. Your release is real deliberate, on these green ones, to be able to push your hands forward. As you get more advanced, you can just lighten up with your hands. But not this week--maybe not even this year. But right now we need to learn how to release by pushing forward.

Now we're gonna start this from a standstill, till you're all getting it. If your horse gets real fidgety and wants to back up, you might be doing a little too much--put a little less pressure on 'im. Once in awhile, if it's a more experienced horse, you might have to hold 'im in, close your legs there. Let's try that from a standstill, see how it works for ya. Just get a little change there. There are many, many different kinds of flexion that can occur when you pick up on two reins. So ya gotta get to where ya understand kinda what your lookin' for, and you reward the *correct*

response. Sometimes, and it's not the best equitation in the world, but sometimes you need to look around the corner and see what's happening down there. So you kinda know what to reward, cuz you might not be used to feeling it in your hands. And if your not, well get to lookin'. Come have a peak down there once in a while. In time you could sit right up there and it wouldn't make any difference. We want this to become second nature to you and your horse, to learn to give like that. Okay, that was fine. Is anybody not getting it, not sure, want me to watch you?

<question about busy mouth> Yeah, don't worry about it since she is pretty green that mouth will get quiet as the feet get a little more useable for ya. Don't worry about that too much as long as she's giving. But don't be

tricked. Sometimes, rather than giving they're chewing and ya might think it was a give. Don't release for that, or you'll get the mouth *more* active. Make sure that they are breaking at the poll. Okay? <question about horse flexing at both the poll and at neck> You've got flexion at about 6 and 7 vertebrae when it should be [at the poll]. You're also getting it [at the poll]. So you're gettin' it in a couple places. So what you do is you take the flexion out of one place while leaving it in another. So while you're asking for that soft feel, maybe he'll break [at the poll] and

then come back to 6 and 7, he's kinda over-flexed. Then what you do is, you're still asking for the soft feel, but then you might just bump him up with one hand or the other to take this bend out of here that he's doing, and the release as soon as you get just the flexion at the poll. Yeah, try it. Keep lifting up until he gets up. Up, bump 'em up. Up! Up! There, release! Now had your feel to him been right, you wouldn't have had to back so far before you were successful. Now go easy. There, release! Because you got it at the poll and you didn't have it at 6 and 7 that time. See? It seems pretty tedious, huh? Well, it is. But fine riding is. And the imagine the responsibility you'd have getting this correct while lopin' your horse. Lot of folks figure, "If it's down, or just sorta generally going down, that's good enough." Well, it depends on how good you wanna get on your horse. If you really wanna get the horse nice, close is not good enough. Perfect is good enough.

Wlen that over-flexion occurs, say they're like a carousel horse on a merry-go-round, that's kinda what they're looking like--what it does is it carries the weight onto the front end. Once they rollover a certain point in their flexion, there's a huge amount of weight [that] rolls up to the front end of the horse. And you're gonna feel it in the feet when you start tryin' to do something with those front feet, you'll feel it, it'll feel like you're just stuck in the mud. And yet the hind feet don't feel like they're stuck in anything. You'll see some of these horses [like in some horse shows] and you'll see some of these horses that are over-flexed, they're all humped over, they look like a roach...and they're just pulling themselves along with their front end. Their hind end is bearing so little that you feel that you could put your hand under their foot and it wouldn't even hurt. And it all starts in the way they have that horse rolling up and under You know one of the things that really causes it a lot? These people that lunge these horses for miles and miles with side lines and that kind of stuff, and another good one is draw reins.

The problem, when you put a bend in a rein, whether it's a running martingale or a draw rein, when you put a bend in a rein--you don't need to know anything about horses, it's just simple physics that most high schools cover-the release time is doubled. Any time you bend a rein, or a rope, or a line, that's what a pulley is. It's like a lever. It gives you twice the strength, but it releases twice as slow. Well, who has that good a hands that you have the luxury of saying, "I'm so good that I can be twice as slow by putting a bend in this rein, and I will be adequate on my horse?" Who's that good? Nobody. So that's why when I discovered the physics of that and what that does, how detrimental it is to a horse in terms of his release, because the release is all depending on whether he's gonna learn this or not. You've got to release when it is occurring, not some time afterward. So the release is crucial, at an *instant*. So, I understood there was no way my hands were good enough that I could take that risk of releasing twice as slow. So I stopped using anything that puts a bend in my rein, that's why. So, now at least, when you have somebody somewhere along the line say, "Hey, why don't ya put a pair of draw reins on that horse?", you'll have an intelligent answer now. Rather than just say, "Well, cuz Buck said not to cuz a sorry hand rides in 'em." That probably isn't gonna satisfy an intelligent person because some guy in Wyoming said a bunch of sheepherders use those kind of outfits <laughs>. I'd like you to have an intelligent response. And there is an intelligent response for these things, there is a reason why. A lot of this has been done for a long time by some really good hands. But you do need to know why. Then you'll have a little more commitment to it if you understand why.

Humorous question about sheepherders> They all have real thin leather reins, cuz they get off and let 'em draaag the reins, and he grazes and steps on it, jerks his mouth off, breaks the rein. A lot of 'em have splices all up and down the reins from where they've stepped on it. How'd you like to have that happen to your horse's mouth? Just once in a while lose track in the deep grass. They get to where they walk sideways, that's a 'nice' way of horse learning to carry himself. That's how they learn to drag those reins and graze while the guy's out there doing whatever he's doing with the sheep. They learn to walk sideways and drag the reins so they don't step on it, once they've broke a hundred reins. Well, guess what? That affects how they go forward. So, you don't wanna do that.

You'll have enough problems without having that kinda stuff <laughter>. I'm checking back on with my horses, these babies like this. Just keepin' track of things, gettin' them soft, maybe I'd step them over one way or the other. Even when I'm just sitting out here, there's a lot of times I might just, if I haven't done anything for a little while, I might just pick up on 'em as if to say, "Hey, are you still aware that I'm here?" If he does that <soft feel?> he says, "You bet, I'm there." But if I pick up and he's just like got a blank look on his face, no, it's a damn good thing I asked.

Because...if he lost track of me that much, that also meant he maybe coulda gotten scared. And all of a sudden just broke in two and gone to buckin'. Or jumped sideways. So I do a lot of this on my colts, it's frequent. But

you guys will be working on it while you're walking.

On a green horse, you'll hear me say, "Get a soft feel and stop 'em." While you're walking, you might just get a soft feel then go a ways on a loose rein...you might go 10 or 12 strides, get 'em soft again, and release. When I get him soft again, and my legs keep him moving here, I'm saying don't stop here, don't stop, keep moving. Get him soft, and let go. We'll go on a loose rein for a ways. No we'll make a half circle to the left Notice how I kicked up the pace a little bit in my half circle. And I'll leg yield him into this corner here, I want him to learn how to use this arena. Now I might get a soft feel here, release, reach up and pet 'im. Keep him on course, but then go a little ways and get it again. Release. This is the preparation for stopping, but as long as my body is alive and active and I'm moving him on, he should not stop, he should only assume the position of stopping. But when I go to stop him, I don't increase the pressure <on the bit>, I let my seat kind a rotate, I sorta sit down on my pockets to stop him. This is where it happens. You might tip your feet slightly ahead so as to allow you to sorta tuck your rump underneath ya, to where you're sittin' down on your pockets. Instead of having a hollow in your back the way you normally would when you're go in' forward, you take that hollow out. You straighten. And they can feel that. Now if, when I go to stop him, and I offer that with my seat while holding a soft feel, and he didn't stop, I'm gonna take a hold of him more then. I'll do more with my reins, I'm gonna get a change in those feet. And who knows, if the horse is really not paying attention, well maybe his lips are gonna get about that long <6 inches>. I don't know. I'm gonna get 'im stopped, I'll tell ya that. But you've gotta offer the horse something good. You get him soft, you're saying, "Get yourself ready mentally and physically." That's what that's for. So you might get him ready ten times and only stop him one out of ten times. Now I'll get him ready, and we'll sit down, see? If he hadn't stopped within a step or two after I had sat down, well the I might've taken a hold a little firmer. After the stop, let's say your stop was acceptable. You were satisfied with it. You get him soft, there's a brief release there, then I might get him soft and step him back, maybe just a step or two. If he's light. But if I go back a step or two and he's bracing and we're sorta wrestling each other here, weill might just go right on back,. How far? Till lightness occurs.

Now, these are the rules when it comes to backing. You are to get a soft feel, and then hold it, and wait on his feet, you don't pull him back. If your horse is backing with a soft feel, you release every step, there, there, there, there, there. As the foot goes to the ground (concentrate on the front feet) your hands go down with the foot, there, there, there, there, there, there. If you go to back your horse and he goes back but is not in a soft feel, he's not giving-no release. *No* release. You hold *steady* and you'd ride him on back until some moment he would drop his chin while backing...and at that instant <release>. So maybe I'd said ten steps? Might be fifteen or twenty for some of you. And at some point he'll drop his chin while backing. That's the moment you're done. I don't care how many steps it is. But eventually I'd like you to become accurate enough that when I say, "Back ten steps with a soft feel," you'd get ten outta ten with proper flexion and good cadence. <talks about his colt> He'll back every step with a soft feel right now. But like I say, he's got about three weeks on 'im, maybe a month of ridin'. So he oughta be able to handle that by now. But if he had only had four or five rides on him, well, it might be more in and out. He'd maybe be soft for two steps, and nose out for two or three, and then back in for a couple. But now, like I say, he's got a few rides on him so he can kinda hold this on back.

They work on a soft feel at the walk> Keep your hands low, about even with your hip bones, have your reins adjusted to where your hands are a little bit in front of the saddle horn, they're about as wide as your hips.

Q&A

Busy mouth is in the feet.

In response to someone who said, "I don't have a brain": Oh, don't be so hard on yourself. If that was fair to say, then how come I'm not better than what I am, because I've been around this more than any of you, and I've rode more than any of you. And that's alii do, I eat, think, drink, sleep riding. So if we're all gonna get down on ourself, well then I guess it's okay for me to get down on myself then because you have excuses, some of you have to have a real job. But I don't get down on myself. \/IJhy? Because I just enjoy ridin'. I don't give a damn, maybe I don't make a perfect lead change on this horse today. Aw gee, wow. So what? It's not the end of the world, hit it tomorrow. <but, but> Ah, don't worry about it, that's how you improve, that's how you get to be a better hand: make a lot of dumb mistakes. Big deal, just don't get so emotional about it. That's just part of the process. You guys, some of ya, are just hard on yourselves cuz you're not used to dealing with disappointment. Me? I am <laughter>. It's part of it, that's how you learn. Don't make such a big thing out of it. Once in a while you'll think, "That was an ugly stop that I just offered my horse." Okay, well, nobody's gonna cut off your finger for it, it's not a big thing. Do better next time. That's all. <more probably in a couple days; gotta travel home tomorrow night> Andrew

Instead of finding something to chew up, why don't you move your feet? <flag, flag-sounds better than "thwack thwack"?> You can see these horses don't, they don't have a lotta trouble with these saddles cuz--hey, you go on that way. <during these times, Buck's looking for the colts to move freely, to have calm, non-threatening expressions, to be responsive to his driving-he often seemed to give special attention to one or two colts that didn't show these sorts of things as the rest just drove along nicely> We have to learn to turn the other cheek here, not the cheek that kicks. In a little bit, when I ask these horses to move, they'ff move. little duff. The halter wouldn't fit on this end <to a horse that was stuck with its hind end facing Buck?>. So j don't want 'im presenting that end to me. We do a deal at my ten day clinics with every horse, every day, to where all the colts, they have to succeed at folding their arms and leaving the herd-goin' to the other end of the pen [arena?] with folded arms. So that this herd boundness and social bankruptcy that you see in everybody's horses, by the end of 10 days they can be right in the middle of a herd they [clinic participants] can bump 'em about twice with their legs, and they

head out-straightway. Work's doesn't it? <to a participant that had done it before> In the context of a four day clinic we don't have time to do it, we couldn't. But I'm sure you're fookin' at it thinkin', "My gosh would that help that bunch of idiots." 'cause those horses get so straight and it's so effortless to ride 'em forward when you can do that. Before we're done today, I will talk you through what you would do to get a horse over herd-boundness.

I just want to see what you know. How many of you have herd-bound horses? How many shoulda raised their hand?

Every horse owner. Some of ya have herd-bound horses, you've learned how to put up with it, or ya don't even

know--you're not even aware of it. Cuz it's not something that's unbearable to ya. Unless you've already done what I was talkin' to her about, every horse you own is herd bound. Just some worse than others. I will talk ya through it before we're all done, so at least then you'll say ya heard it. Then if ya don't do it, it's your own fault. Catch your horses up, you guys. If you have a horse that's bein' motivated by other horses more than it is by you, you're not going to teach it anything. That's why thafs so important to me to get that fixed. <aside> You'" really have to watch her that she doesn't kick, she's gonna keep you kind a busy. There ya go.

Part VI

You kinda need to move your feet toward that fence if you don't want this rope nippin' ya. like that. She knows how long that rope is. Hindquarters. And all I'm doin' here is getting her ready to come up to me on the fence.

She wasn't ready, that's why you were almost there but not quite. When you run outta rope you gotta square up your hind end. You see how her expression now toward me isn't, "I'm gonna kick your slats out if you crowd me just a little bit."? She's not that way. Cuz I have more presence than you. I didn't give her the impression, in other words, that that was gonna work. Horses know this. That's why you'll see some horses cranky toward others, and then they go by another one and they go, <bows> "I'm not worthy." <laughter> It's natural. I'm not gonna be the last one to the feed bunk, I tell you that, when it comes to these colts. Cuz it just breeds contempt. There ya go <and then, a sudden thwack>--that hip gotta little close there. Now through here. That was pretty good. See, and there's no hard feelings here, but I'll do what it takes to be effective. Right here: I'm directing, now I'm supporting. Think about where you need to go now. See, I offer this long before I come through. But you gotta be accurate with the rope. Sometimes, you guys, when you go to tap a horse with the rope you're more of a danger to yourself. Right here, go forward, go forward. You're tryin' to build a feel in the horse. Now come across. See that bubble between her and I there? She respected my space. Right here, move over, move over. Come on through here. I don't have to close

that hand now. Come on through here. But I'm ready--when you go to switch your tail and say, "I'm gonna check you out, find out you're for real," [thwack] I'm real alright. Release. But that's the thing you've got to understand--is when she needed me to turn it up, I didn't change my expression. I didn't change my feelings toward her. Therefore, in not bein' angry or frustrated I was able to release with some good timing out there when she made it. V\lhereas what a lotta folks do when a horse kinda gets a little aggressive or takin' over, then they automatically get mad.

They get angry. That's *weak*. You stay the *same*, you stay *steady*, you don't get angry. You do what it takes, you be calculating. <Buck and filly's owner climb up fence> Now we'" she what she does this time in that spot. I've got an idea she's gonna believe in me more this time than the last time. See? That's what it's supposed to be. I wouldn't say that's good, but that's good enough for me to get on the fence. But as far as it bein' good on the end of a leadrope, hell no. One one-hundreth of one, maybe-ten bein' pretty good, see? One one-hundreth of one. But a lot of you folks are here at this clinic 'cause you don't even know what one is. So that's why you're here, to learn. But see, now I got some wheels, see? I can get her feet to move. And /'11 pet 'er here first. They gotta get used to seein' ya from up above. Release again. Hindquarters are a little bit too far out to suit me. That's a good try so I rub her, then I say, "Okay, we need to do somethin' different with your feet," <bump, bump on the leadrope> She may go the wrong way with 'er hind; I won't release. Keep her working at it, release, there's a try. <bump, bump> There's a try, the hind went left. And I'll pet her in here-there's no hard feelings. If she gets *way* off base I lead her back to my right. She needs to understand that this rope means, "Get your feet active,", see? First ifs, "Get 'em active anywhere." It's like the "hotter/colder" game. First it's get 'em active anywhere, and then when I can get 'em active, then I start sayin', "Now not quite there, there. Not there, there," based on my release. 00 you understand that? First you just gotta get 'em moving and who cares where, just get movin'. And then take it somewhere.

Now we need the hind a little closer here, just because it's not terribly convenient for me. I could get on that way. VVhy should I when she can get closer? <bump, bump, bump, bump> She says, "That's kinda inconvenient there." Release. See her closer? She's parallel now and I rub 'er. I'm out here to get her to step forward, like that. Good. Out here again. Move your feet Move your feet I'll just make that [backing up or something] difficult. Release. Now *that's* convenient. That's how it supposed to be. See? The hotter/colder game, that's all it is. And from here you'd move these stirrups around, make sure she can kinda handle that. Okay? Now back her up. I want her to understand that the safe place for her is to cuddle up to me. That all we're 100kin' for. See that sweat startin' to crack out on 'er? That's mental, cause physically she hadn't done much here. It's mental--she's having to re-think how she Jives. That's what makes ya sweat. It's the best kind. <they get her a little more responsive and comfortable 'cuddling up'> That's about right If she can handle that, I probably could get on 'er. All this looks simple, doesn't it? It is. There ya go <hands fi11y over to her appreciative owner next to him on the

fence>. You're welcome. <continued later...> Andrew

Part V

Okay, you can get 'em up to ya on the fence, you guys. We'll see how your homework pans out. Okay, if they're ready, you can slide on 'em. Just like the last group, want ya to just take that head around and pet 'em. Don't slide on .if he's not right there though, He's gotta be organized., gotta be right on the spot. If he's not exactly where 1 told ya to have him, you don't get on. \NI1atcha need to concentrate on is, you need to ask yourself, "How many places in here am 1 rewarding this horse for not responding?" You're tugging and tugging <to get the horse up to the fence> then you quit tugging. He hadn't got anything, then ya increase it then ya decrease it. There's no way he could find that, unless you change and concentrate more. Just bump, bump, bump, bump-there's a try. See, and you missed it, ya kept right on pullin', see? Try it--just go again. Luckily, these horses forgive and forget no matter whatcha do. They've got the capacity to, at least--if you eventually shape up, that is.

So, you guys, just take that head around when you get on 'em, just take it around and pet 'em. Stay busy on that, I don't wantcha goin' anywhere for a little bit here. <someone's still having a problem positioning horse to get on from the fence?> I'll show ya something, I'll check out your homework. The prerequisite that I gave everybody yesterday for homework was the leading between you and the fence. All of you pay attention. We'll just see. I said you'll have to be able to do it eventually without driving with the tail of the rope, but ya use it if ya need it. <Buck asks with only

leading hand for horse to move between him and the fence-nothing> Your homework, the dog ate it, right? <laughter> So ya offer this <leading hand> and ya offer that <with the driving hand/rope>. Since the horse switched its tail and said, "Get away from met" See? That's what you are is a doormat. I, however, am not <laughter>.

\NI1en 1 say, "I need you to go forward," you listen. It went to pull away, so I blocked it, right here, that's forward, move your feet. Move your feet. Forward. Now break over behind. Now what I'm gonna to show you is, by the time 1 get done, I'll be able to send this horse by me and it'll break over behind and I won't have to close my hand around this rope. And right now, all my stregth is about barely enough. Right here, move your feet <thwack>, roll over behind, see? It goes to the end of the rope and has no idea of what's happening on the end of it. C'mon Fluffy. See, those hind quarters aren't workin'. This is what you <owner> need, what we're tatin' about to get your horse in.

There's an imaginary horse trailer right behind my left shoulder. It's all evasion. Now this way--see, that has no meaning. He says, "Drag me." I don't drag horses. 1 drive horses. I'm helpin' this horse to find the end of the rope. It doesn't know where the end of the rope is. If you give it six feet it takes a dozen. Gotta use that hind end. If you didn't get it usin' the hind end it could fall with you when you went to ride in the hills, though it's not terribly strong in

the hindquarters anyway. Now this way. I've gatta give him some rope to move, and then what it does--don't crowd me there. Just pet your horse, don't pull. Don't pull, pet your horse. All it's gonna do is get outta my way. Then you get over in the clear country, then you can bend your horse, see? Work on that head comin' around.

This horse has gotta learn how to get forward <thwack, thwack> without walkin' on ya. Release. You could see mavin' out <in the saddle> might've been a problem for ya. See? Forward-gotta step toward the fence though, to get there. V\Jtlen she goes, it's all impulse-cause you never really got fer goin' forward except when she was runnin' ya over. Hindquarters. What you guys need to think about with this excercise <'leading by' then changing directions and going in the other direction>: it's a line and a corner, a line and a corner, a line and a corner. \M1ereas some of you, when you do it, you don't feed 'em enough rope for them to go in a fine before you're already trin' to go the other way. Then they just get wadded up and they don't go anywhere. Do ya understand? You gotta give 'em somewhere to go. The line would be in that [imaginary for now] trailer, see, rather than lettin' 'em wad up at the back door. See? A line. <horse leads by him> There's the hind. Kinda need to move over toward that fence if you don't want the end of that rope to nip ya. You guys see where I was with the tail of that rope? She had a place to move over and get outta the way. But I wasn't going to start to shrink away and go, "Ah, I'm gonna get stepped on, 00000," That's what made your horse run ya over, cuz you're always accomadating her when she's ready to wipe ya out. You're retreating. Me, I do this, I say, "This is mine, that's yours." No hard feelings, but I know what's mine. And I'll defend it, if I have to.

Andrew

Didn't finish the colt-starting AM session, but here's some of the PM horsemanship stuf for a change of pace>

...any questions to start off with, don't be bashful. <responds to a question> Is your horse pretty crooked? In which way when you're going to the left? Shoulder in, ribcage in, head out? 'kay...she said when she was going to the left her horse was bulging in, 'course a lot of times even wanting to cut across, not going into the comers like you'd want. Okay, there are a couple things that you could do. Number one, you need to get the horse bending a little better left. So, simply you could do a lot of one rein stops to the left, a Jot more than you'd do to the right. You'd aJso--you'd back a lot of left circles, which we'll back some circles today with 'em as well. That gets that rib cage bulging this way, see? This is a left circle. You'd do quite a bit of that. And while going to the left, you'd do an

awful lot of getting that horse soft and leg-yielding over like that, and then releasing--an awful lot of that. And, of course, the leg-yield, it isn't worth a plug nickle if you don't have that horse getting soft. If he's not givin' to the bridle and moving over, it doesn't do ya a hell of a lot of good. So, ya gotta make sure that he is giving. So, maybe he'd move over, but you've gotta hang in there until that head comes down while he's moving over. Then you release and go on. And you'd ride a ways, but don't leg-yield in. Let me get over here and show ya, cuz I'll have you guys doing some of this later on. This is kinda taboo, what I'm showin' ya right here. Don't do this. Don't leg-yield in. That's your problem in the first place. \Nhen that horse has a fence or a wall as a reference point <out>, don't leg yield in, only out, only out. And right here, my right hand can kinda be down to work on that soft feel My left hand is responsible for the lateral flexion, havin' that nose tip slightly to the left <in>. I want that horse movin' off my leg. And when I do that, maybe I'd determine that maybe the frontquarters were getting to the wall too soon. Well, then that means you need to move your leg back so as to get the hindquarters to catch up. See, I'll show you what I mean. l'iJ get on line again here. Let's say the frontquarters were like this-see how he's not movin' parallel? See? Then

I might have to move my leg back and say, "Catch those hind up." See? So you'll adjust your leg according to what your horse needs. He was gonna kinda just push on through that, so I stopped him, and brought him on back. Now I'll leg-yield him this way That's right, you just kinda bring him off the fence again so that you can practice that leg-yield some more by just simply making a bit of a right circle, or a bit of a left circle, all four quarters reaching together. You follow what I'm saying? Rather than droppin' that shoulder in-I don't wanna do that.

Question about outside rein position?

Yeah, and you might sometimes even have your outside hand up like this, so long as he's in a soft feel. But let's say that horse got to push in' out with his nose. You might have to come down in here <shortens up on the outside rein?>. See? See, like that, to fix that? Cuz if your hand's up too high there's nothin' reaHy getting in his way if he goes to put his nose out there... .Anyone else, any questions? Alright. See, right in there--l'd kick a hole through that sucker if he was doin' that to me on the way by. I'd do something, rather than that there-I see you have a spur on, that's good, good choice. Drive it half way through him when he does that. Cuz that's sinning. It's unacceptable, see? That'd be like one of you being really foul-mouthed in front of a bunch of people. Someone's apt to come up and go, "Hey, partner...". Someone's gonna say, "Hey, I don't letcha do that," ya know? I heard a great line one time. You know how a lot of these punks, ya know, are rea"y, uh, got a big mouth and really foul mouth? J heard a guy go up to a punk one time, he was with his wife. And he said, "I don't know if you hang around classy women or not, but I do." He said, "You'd better watch your mouth." And that kid was with his girlfriend too, that punk, and she looked at him like, "Yeah, ya punk!" And he clean dried up, shaped right up. But there's some of this, ya know, I would never have any hard feelings. But if I was just kind of sitting here and you guys rode by me and my horse was just constantly just pinnin' his ears like that on the way by, there's a point a point where I might say, "Hey, don't think of that." I might get a soft feel or, let's say, rook off one way or the other. But there's a point if he's just soria like, "DON'T BOTHER ME," well, then I'm apt to do a little bit more hey, don't look over there. Stay with me. Watch me kind a help him there. But if he insisted, I might say, "Oops, where'd that [spur?] come from." "Don't

know." Because I asked him a half a dozen times and he's like, brushing me off. Well, you'll find I'm kinda hard to ignore. See how he says he'll be, "I'll think I'll watch you." Good. Had that chance in the first place. See? No hard feelings, but I don't need you jackin' around. It's fine to look over and check things out, but when I say, "Come back to me," I mean it. The next time when he looks over now watch my left foot, you guys. I said, "Look back here," and he said, "I'm all over that."

So, a lot of this is, ya know, you do somethin' early, before it's too late, before it's a big problem. Well, that'd kinda give ya an idea. But a lot of this stuff, ya know, so what: ifs already built in there and you've got a lot of baggage to deal with that horse. WeH, you're just learning how to finish [?] it, ya know? You get some of that gain' on with him, and then you'" apply it to some other stuff. He isn't the last scrappy horse you're gonna ride. You're learnin' this for the next one too. So, just part of the deal. And if I've got my horse aware of me, then, even though he's stand in' kinda relaxed here now, if I said, "Hey, come on, let's go," he's ready. He's not like, "Yeah, I'll be right with ya, I'm gonna worry about somethin' over there." I need him ready when I'm ready. Not tomorrow, right now. But that's just consistent too. And you're totally unfair to your horse if only part of the time you're thinkin' about it, part of the time you're bein' an airhead, ya know. You're always rid in' your horse. Someone asked me one time at a clinic, she said, "\M1en can I start ridin' my horse without thinkin'?" I said, "Well, why don't you go ahead and just put your saddle up on the fence, strap it on, cinch it down, just get up there and just let the air blow through your ears." Whenever you feel the urge to do that, then you just ride the fence like that, cuz you won't do any harm to anybody

but yourself.

You don't ride a horse without thinking, period. It's just that thinking and concentrating becomes easier because it's more a way of life, it's second nature for ya to be aware. Like right there, that little lift to my hand right there?..1 said I don't want the weight to the right front hand, I want it even on both. Wly? Because I said. That's why. Those are my legs, that's why. When I'm on ya, they're my legs, see? If I don't want ya to look over there, ya don't look over there. You'll wait. First thing ya know, he waits. This horse, I didn't raise him. Some other folks did. And he was real distracted, was real lonesome, had a hard time stayin' with ya. But the thing I got goin' now is when I get on, he's with me. Pretty much with me. It's not that I don't have anything to do, but I can get him with me And when he's not with me, I make it difficutt, not impossible. Bein' with me looks a lot better than the alternative. And one day he won't need that support. When he's tied up or something like that, he'll stand content there too. I can't rush that, that'll come one day. But I can map out my own destiny here.

Question on mouthing the bit

Well, it's not terribly busy with your horse, but if that got to going on, there's lotsa different things you could do. Sometimes you could just put a little...<demonstrates>. I got a lot of body in this McCarty (Mecate rein). In other words, there's some weight to it there. Cuz I can do things without actually makin' a direct contact on the horse. If he was to jackin' around with that bit or something-just bein' a kid, ya know, sometimes-J might just do that <demonstrates>. See how 1 put the weight up, and fd let the weight give him just a little bump on the way down? Might be aU ya need to do. v..Ihereas, if a person had like a little spjit rein like a leather rein, you couldn't do that. You'd have to actuaUy tug on him, which isn't as handy. Now a real nervous horse that's really troubled, then it's a different deal. It's a different deal. Sometimes then, there might be on that'd get that way, but I doubt it here [at the clinic]. Then you'd, you might have to reach out--and you've seen me do this before, 1 think-when you come in these grooves right here [neck grooves], go back and forth. There's a certain way you can touch 'em-their mouth'll get quiet, almost instantly. Take less than a minute, even on a realy, really, really troubled horse.

Ya know, it'd be fun to do sometime. Where ya see lots of them, if ya went to a dressage show, there are sometimes you hear so many bits being chomped and clanked on that you literally can't hear someone talkin' to ya, if ya were around a concentration of those horses. And ya know what'd be reaUy funny is-fll guarantee it wouldn't take me more than sixty seconds on anything, if I just lined 'em up and they were all chompin' the bit, I could just walk down the line and J could get 'em just as quiet as you guys' horses. Couple minutes, be through the whole bunch. And you could play with that to the point to where, as a long as I'm standing near 'em their mouth'd be quiet, and if I went out of site behind a door their mouths would get busy. Yeah. Pretty cool. 'course they wouldn't appreciate me doing that because it'd make 'em look bad, if you went to one of those deals. But, uh, it's funny you can-there's so dog-gone sensitive--people just don't understand how much they can get done. They kinda erase all that sensitivity--that's what they're lookin' for, see? <participant comments on something she had done that was successful>

Got it workin' for ya. Good, good. Yeah, and really anybody can do that. If they'd seen ya do it, then they can kinda start exploring. You just had to explore to find out kinda what it was supposed to feel like. And it's no

different than--you could be blindfolded and you could line people up, and they could al1 take turns taking you by the hand and just takin' ya on a

short walk and droppin' ya off again. And it wouldn't be any two people feel the same to ya. And, at somewhere along the line, if they had a number--ifwe'd say, "Okay, it's number four is com in' by," by the time you were done you could say what felt good to ya. And you're liable to say, 'Well, four and seven and thirteen--and seventeen felt terrible." And yet it might look the same for someone watching. But their feel to you would be different. And some of that can't be described so much physically. But there's something else there. You know what I mean? You do 'cause you were doing that with your horse. Uh, and that's kind of a hard thing to teach. But I think in order to get some of that workin' for you, you have to feel a certain way in *here* in order for it to come out *here* [with the horse]. <commenUquestion by participant> Yeah. <"well, 1 just don't have the touch..."> Oh, no. Anybody can have it if they kinda work at that, ya know. There probly'n't anybody here gonna be a Tom Dorrance, but you'd be surprised how much you do have to offer. If ya just kinda work at it. It's amazing. <question about bit fit>

That bit's a little high, too. You could do a little something when he's jackin' around like that. You don't have to tolerate that. But I'd lower that bit some, that's pretty high. Yeah, it's pretty high. To where there's no wrinkles, really. How many of you have been told that, somewhere along the line, that ya had to have 'em, the corners of their mouth peeled back and a wrinkle or two? Well, who hasn't heard it? Ya have two

wrinkles, some say three wrinkles, and some say one wrinkle. Well, why? Did they tell you why? No. <'Well, sometimes they say it's so the bit doesn't bang them in the teeth"> V\t11at teeth are they gonna hit? <"I don't know"> The teeth that are the most vulnerable, actually, are the wolf teeth when it's pulled up that high. Yeah, God made a little place in there where there is no teeth. And the thing that they're most likely to hit is the

wolf teeth. You can go too low and it could hit the canines, but that's real low, that's not anywhere near the corner of the mouth. So, then that doesn't hold water. So we'd need another reason-something that actually is legitimate. Heh. There isn't one. And, if you imagined, if you were the horse, you'd probably get sick of havin' the corners of your mouth peeled back into folds there. You'd get tired of it, it'd be irritatin' to ya. Maybe you'd get dull to it, to where it didn't mean anything. But, then again, to cause the corners of the mouth to wrinkle, there's a measurable amount of pressure. It's physical. It's measurable. Well then, why wouldn't ya want-say it was an ounce or

two or four or five ounces on the comer of the mouth--why wouldn't you want to use that four or five ounces to slow one down, stop him, or back 'im up, rather than have him eventually just get dull to it and ignore it? I would say it's going to take more pressure than that to get down to those feet then. Well, I guess I'd feel like I don't have such an excess of bullets that I wanna fire all my bullets like that just off into the air. I don't want him going through the reins. So, when I touch the corner of his mouth, J want that to have meaning, or to have purpose and meaning. There might be times when I'll have half a dozen wrinkles on the corner of his mouth. But I'm askin' for somethin'. I might take a hold of him and *really* take a hold of him. But then in a moment, I might be just as light as ever, too, again.